Q&A: Cooperation should be based on mutual respect –Sudanese envoy

It is almost one year since Sudan established a full diplomatic office in Kigali. The New Times’ Felly Kimenyi interviewed the embassy’s Charger d’Affaires, Idrees Muhammed Ali, who spoke about a variety of issues including bilateral relations, the ICC, Nile Basin, the Darfur conflict, among others. Below are the excerpts. TNT: Tell us about the current state of the diplomatic relations between Rwanda and Sudan? ALI: The two friendly countries and people are now enjoying excellent diplomatic relations. Sudan opened its embassy in Rwanda in September 2011 which was the beginning of establishment of solid diplomatic representation at the level of the ambassador. The leadership of the two countries share a lot of common views and opinions regarding global and regional issues so it is very important to say that the two countries have a common stand on several issues. Rwanda has a diplomatic office in Khartoum and we are looking forward that this office will be upgraded into a full embassy. We highly appreciate the contribution of Rwanda in the United Nations peace keeping mission in Darfur and the commander of the forces is Rwandan who is General Patrick (Nyamvumba). So we highly appreciate Rwanda in this role. Since the opening of the embassy in Rwanda many initiatives have been undertaken. We are now working on a framework between the two countries in order to establish a bilateral corporation in different fields and these agreements will be signed soon by the respective ministers of foreign affairs. It is already agreed upon and the two countries shared the draft which has been finalised, so we are just waiting for the meeting schedules for the two ministers, either in Khartoum or in Kigali, to sign the framework. TNT: You talked about the role of Rwanda in the peace keeping mission in Darfur, what is the current situation there? Has the region been completely pacified? ALI: What I can say is that there are remarkable positive developments taking place; obviously the signing of the agreement on July 15, 2011 and the establishment of the Regional Authority of Darfur as an outcome of this agreement. The situation has been now normalised and we are having joint troops on the borders between Chad and Sudan, and this contributes to peace and stability between the two countries.It is an excellent experience to monitor the borders and use them as a tool for exchanging interests rather than exchanging weapons and rebels. So this contributes a lot to security and stability of Darfur. I can say that 90 per cent or more than that of Darfur is now secure and stable; the peace keeping mission contributes a lot to the security and peace restoration of Darfur. We are now witnessing the return of IDPs (Internally Displaced Persons) and refugees to their home towns to start normal life again. As an indicator, now we are having huge developmental projects and infrastructure development in Darfur – roads, bridges, airport etc and this is a true sign of stability. The government of North Darfur state will launch on Thursday (last week) the first operation to export 10,000 cattle from El Fasher airport to Libya. This shows that the situation in Darfur is normal and stable and as time goes on, we are optimistic that the people of Darfur will enjoy even more peace. We still have rebel movements in the region which are still refusing to join the Doha Agreement. We think it’s important for the region not to have negative forces.We are now having a meeting in Khartoum of the Defence Ministers (from the International Conference for the Great Lakes Region) and heads of security from the region and the main reason is to combat negative forces. TNT: Do you think the renewal of the UNAMID mandate last month was called for given the fact that the situation in Darfur is now returning to normal? ALI: We highly appreciate the work that UNAMID is doing. Its not only in peace keeping but they also contribute to the developmental aspects in Darfur, they contribute to building bridges, rehabilitations, they held a conference on water in Darfur, and this is one of the root causes of conflict in that region: the issue of desertification and water shortage. Since the start of the crisis in 2003 and right now, there is a big change. Now the new course is for peace, development, rehabilitation, reconstruction and repatriation of refugees, which is different from the early days when we had rebels and the fighting was ongoing, we need UNAMID in these efforts. TNT: Back to the secession of South Sudan, what is the current situation between Khartoum and Juba? ALI: It is important to go back to the signing of the Comprehensive Peace Agreement in 2005; it was a great success not only for the leaders of Sudan, but the entire African continent. President Omar Bashir and the late Dr John Garang signed the agreement in 2005 in Nairobi ending the civil war in the two parts of the country. This was the political will of the leaders in Sudan to put an end to this civil war, and this was an important milestone in the history of South Sudan. Part and parcel of the comprehensive agreement was a referendum of giving the people of Southern Sudan a chance to determine whether they wanted to stay in the mother country or have their own country. Later, the referendum was conducted peacefully and smoothly with the facilitation of the Government of Sudan. Khartoum honoured the results as they were and was the first country to recognise the secession of South Sudan. President Bashir was there when they declared the secession and assured the people of South Sudan that we will stay brothers and sisters, which I think is the best way to maintain the most desirable situation between the two countries. Yes we are having outstanding issues and we are having ongoing negotiations in Addis Ababa, and I can assure you the news from there shows good progress; there is a political will between the two countries to find solutions to the outstanding issues like the border, and oil disputes, and the buffer zones, etc. TNT: Sudan this week hosted a meeting of Defence ministers from the region, the International Conference in the Great Lakes Region (ICGLR). Does this mean that Sudan is going beyond pacifying itself to look at the bigger picture – beyond its borders? ALI: Yes, we are part of the African continent and are also an active member in the ICGLR and it is our duty to work with our neighbors and the entire region to restore peace and stability of Africa. As Africans we have to work really hard to find solutions to our problems and one of the terminologies that I admired when I came to Kigali is “home-grown solutions”. This is an important approach that all Africans should embrace because if you bring external solutions to our countries, it might not be the right approach to address these problems. So the meeting in Khartoum is a regular meeting. Top on the agenda is the issue of negative forces in the region and I think it is important that all the African countries join hands in the fight against negative forces. The meeting is also in the context of the upcoming high-level summit that will take place in Kampala (this week) to discuss the current situation in eastern DRC. We hope that it will come up with the solution that will address the crisis in DRC. TNT: Still on the issue of security, there were fears that the Arab Spring could extend to Sudan after neighbours Tunisia, Egypt and Libya. Were these fears justified? ALI: Generally the situation in Sudan is different from the situations that happened in countries that experienced the Arab Spring. We have an elected government that all political parties do engage in and it was acknowledged by the international community. If you visit Khartoum and other cities of Sudan you will recognise the huge development projects that have been done there. Yes, we are having economic difficulties after the secession of South Sudan but we have a well organised and excellent plan to address this issue. We had limitations in some cities and in Khartoum and we acknowledge that, but we don’t think they were calling for the change of government. Usually we have change of administration through a democratic process and this is one of the pillars of democracy. So there were demonstrations of people who were upset with the cut in the subsidies and also the economic challenges that we were facing and the government recognised that. We have a high level committee chaired by the 1st Vice President which is trying to find ways and means to overcome these challenges. So I can assure you that the situation is calm and the demonstrations now don’t have any problems in Sudan but some political parties which didn’t succeed in the elections want to use those people to call for change of regime. But if the political parties want to change the regime they have the right through the democratic elections which will be next year. TNT: You talked about home-grown solutions; my next question is about the International Criminal Court, which has indicted President Bashir. There have been calls to establish an African court to deal with African matters. What is the stand of the Sudanese people? ALI: First of all, Sudan is not party to the Rome Statute that created the ICC. This is very important yet the ICC is trying to subject Sudan to an agreement Sudan is not party to. The other issue is that they are saying that the mandate was given to the ICC by the fellows of the UN Security Council, that they referred the situation in Darfur to the ICC. We all know how the ICC works, at the end of the day it’s a political, not really a judicial, organ. The same resolution that referred the Darfur situation to the ICC gave exemptions to the American soldiers who have committed crimes but will not be brought before the ICC. So you see the selectiveness and double standards of the whole process. The ICC itself is a political club, from my point of view, the so-called Universal Jurisdiction. It represents extremely dangerous developments in the field of international law. It is also a new form of imperialism and colonisation. This is our perspective; the whole idea is to target Africans. Sudan has nothing to do with the so-called warrants of arrest against the President or to the officials of Sudan. We don’t give any attention to this. Sudan has been supported by the African Union, Non Aligned Movement and the Arab League; all these organisations share the same point of view as Sudan – that the ICC’s warrant of arrest to the President only contributes to the insecurity, not the peace in Darfur. The ICC exercises double standards, selectivity and the prosecutor is just an activist. It’s a tool or policy that they just want to score goals against the government of Sudan but not to do justice or uphold the international law. On the other hand, you have a United Nations that is the only multilateral platform we have. It is not a proper form because when it was created in 1945 it was created with principle double standards. You see, you have the Security Council whose five countries only have permanent membership. The others it’s just associated membership. We have countries that join the Security Council for two years, but they don’t have permanent membership. In the Security Council, USA blocked dozens of resolutions on Israel because of strategic relations between those two countries. So you see it’s not a matter of democracy or human rights, it is just a matter of how far or how close you are to the big boss. Africa is left out. Africa has no permanent seat on the Council. TNT: Sudan requested to join the East African Community (EAC), why are you making this request? What interests/prospects does Sudan envisage from joining the bloc? ALI: As I told you Sudan is an active member of the African continent and the world at large, and it is important to have the membership to many regional organiSations in order to share the responsibility with your neighbours to really build up the capacity of the countries in the region. The application was submitted but unfortunately in the 15th African Heads of State meeting in Burundi (last year) it was not accepted due to the issue of geographical proximity. We don’t have common borders with any of the EAC partner states but South Sudan has applied to join and, if they are accepted, then the issue of geographical proximity will be solved and then it will be up to the Government of Sudan to apply again, but generally the Sudan has a lot to benefit from the bloc and the reverse is true. And let me take the positive opinion of Rwanda towards Sudan on joining the EAC. Rwanda expressed that Sudan is needed and there is a lot the region would gain from Sudan. And we hope that, at the end of the day, these regional organisations will work towards benefiting the interests of the people in this region. TNT: There has been a reported deadlock under the Nile Basin Framework with allegations that Sudan and Egypt want dominance on the usage of the Nile waters. What is your take? ALI: There was the 20th meeting on July 5 here in Kigali. The meeting was very successful. We have challenges that we have to face but Sudan strongly believes in the joint corporation of all Nile Basin countries since we all have no any other alternative and historically Sudan is one of the founders of the Nile Basin manifested in different activities. Sudan is ready to overwhelmingly support and enhance moving forward together in the spirit of sustained corporation to preserve the one NBI philosophy to achieve the wide integrated goals economically, peace and security. We look forward to the upcoming extraordinary meeting that will be in the first week of September, here in Kigali, to address those challenges in order to find an outcome acceptable to all countries.Rwanda is currently the chair of the forum of the ministers of irrigation. It is not the issue of Egypt and Sudan from one side and other countries on the other side, I think there is political will from all the Nile Basin countries in order to address those challenges. On the sidelines of the upcoming meeting we are also planning to hold bilateral agreement between Rwanda and Sudan in order to have MoU in the cooperation in the area of irrigation, building dams, etc where both countries have mutual interests. TNT: Why did you specifically choose the areas of health as the first area of cooperation mainly between Rwanda and Sudan? ALI: There are many areas where cooperation can take place. We chose health because it is one of the basic needs and after consultation, we found out that it was an area that Rwanda needs to be assisted and we chose children because they are the most vulnerable sector of society. This is just kicking off and as I told you the next batch of children will go this month for heart surgery but this doesn’t hinder the cooperation to go to other sectors. As I mentioned, agriculture, and political cooperation from the meeting our ambassador Nasreldin Wali had with President Paul Kagame, all show that the political relations between the countries will even get better and better depending on what has been achieved since the embassy opened in Kigali a year ago. We also have cooperation in education where Rwandan students are sent to Sudan every year to pursue studies in different disciplines. TNT: Anything that you would like to add? ALI: What I would like to say as we conclude is to call on African countries to stand in solidarity to be able to defeat these double standards imposed on us by the west. Western countries are dividing African countries in order to rule them. So what we could do to stop the double standards is to strengthen our regional integration communities, strengthen the African Union and promote sub-regional organisations. If we fail to address our internal problems, others will intervene. Let’s find our own solutions, African solutions, we should help each other and leave no chance for them to come in and dictate matters. For instance the DRC issue, we should resolve it together as Africa and don’t allow any other international actor to come in. We are just calling for normal relations between Africa; concerning the other actors in of the international community, yes they have the power, but we must cooperate with each other as sovereign states with mutual respect. Cooperation should not be based on conditions. You have China, for example, that is gaining ground because they are not intervening in our situations, they are not lecturing us: do this, do that. They are just partnering with us and we had a very successful meeting of Africa-China cooperation recently. And, finally, I would like to thank you for the interview.

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Q&A: Cooperation should be based on mutual respect –Sudanese envoy